Curse

C2K · May 30, 2008, 05:30 PM // 17:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

And you do UW hard mode, DoA and so on...how?

I use Guildies.

DreamWind · May 30, 2008, 05:46 PM // 17:46

I am sitting here laughing my ass off at this. Any idiot saw this coming. If you broke PvE away from PvP, it was clear that PvE was going to be even more ridiculous and easy than it already was. PvP is what kept THE ENTIRE GAME in balance.

Anybody claiming Ursan is not easy button is bad at Guild Wars. Anybody claiming Ether Renewal is not broken as hell is bad at Guild Wars. The only question is whether or not having stuff broken as hell is good for Guild Wars. I've been saying since day 1....NONONONONO.

The thing thats hilarious is, the majority got what the wanted, and now there are minorities that don't like the changes breaking off from the majority! Welcome to the minority club! Face the facts people...the majority want to "feel epic" and destroy monsters and get loot just like Izzy said. I'd be shocked if anything from here on out got nerfed in PvE.

Kashrlyyk · May 30, 2008, 06:06 PM // 18:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Did you even read the post I quoted? Why would I mention that not using it to it's full potential mean I can't step back and look at it?
....

Yes, I have and all your posts in here and all the other players that cry, because they can´t "gimp" themselves, but, yes, I maybe should have quoted someone else. Sorry for that.

I had quite a lot of discussions with the "elitist" idiots, that can´t step back and want things nerfed into oblivion, because of that. If you are not one of them, than I give you my sincerest apologies.

Symeon · May 30, 2008, 06:12 PM // 18:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Anybody claiming Ursan is not easy button is bad at Guild Wars.

I don't think I've seen anyone claiming it isn't. All I've seen is people saying 'DUN LIEK IT DUN USE IT!!!!!!11' and 'It's good for PuGs/casual players'. But yeah, that still makes them bad at Guild Wars.

Ether Renewal: lol. The sad thing is ANet would probably be more willing to nerf this than Ursan.

ElnoreVarda · May 30, 2008, 06:18 PM // 18:18

Heh, some people seem to love the new ether (and the other imba pve updates/skills) and others hate it.

Lets face it; Pve is easier now than it has ever been before, if you think otherwise you dont play very much or you simply fail at the game.
While I like being epic and (In my case since Im an ele) spamming prot skills all over the place - easily outproting two or perhaps even three monks in a lengthy PvE battle - I dont like mindless grinding without any real challenge in it, which PvE has been turned into.

So what to do about it? From what I know, nothing will be done and PvE will forever be a sandbox for people above average skill (and a paradise for thoes below). Though, if I ruled the roost, Id do what Anet has done with us to the PvE world: Buff it. Add a few skills to the mobs, give them a few extra levels, let them work better together - simply make them mean enough to put up some resistance (in HM, let those who think pve is good as it is have NM for themselves). Not like this is ever going to happen, but I would love it! Everyone doesnt play PvE for loot and a walk in the park - some wants a challenge.

And for a serious solution for ether; drop the energy gained per enchant to 2 and let the recharge be. With many enchants it will still be godly, but much harder to manage effectively.

KamikazeChicken · May 30, 2008, 06:28 PM // 18:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

Why should anything be balanced in PvP? You're free not to play it. Play PvE instead, if you think it's not balanced properly.

This type of 'GTFO' argument can be applied to anything. But it doesn't improve or help anything or anyone.

PvP had to be balanced or it defeats the purpose of it existing, not to mention GW made money off PvP competitions. I don't exactly see PvE competitions in GW's future. PvE doesn't need to be balanced, honestly, because it was already far too easy to begin with. This half caters to the casual or horrible players, but so does the severing of PvE/PvP balance updates. There's absolutely no reason for everybody to try and push their views and playstyle on everybody else because they lack any self control to just NOT use something they don't agree with. Seriously, the skill wasn't seeing any use when it was nerfed, so just keep not using it and pretend it's nerfed. Would I care if Anet tried to fix its obvious flaws? No, but it's not like my heroes were going to be using it anyway.

After 3+ years of this game, it honestly doesn't matter what they do to PvE because you'll all get your panties in a twist anyway. It's much easier to just let it go when it's something like this that really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. Now, continue on with what will probably be 20 pages of random entertainment!

rohara · May 30, 2008, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Sorry, PvE players asked for PvE to be cut away from balance, so now they get what they ask for. I'm sure the majority is ever so happy.

/thread

couldn't have said it better myself.

Bryant Again · May 30, 2008, 06:31 PM // 18:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk

Yes, I have and all your posts in here and all the other players that cry, because they can´t "gimp" themselves, but, yes, I maybe should have quoted someone else. Sorry for that.

I had quite a lot of discussions with the "elitist" idiots, that can´t step back and want things nerfed into oblivion, because of that. If you are not one of them, than I give you my sincerest apologies.

The problem with all of these updates as that people who were "skilled" before are now gimping themselves. By not using Ursanway and instead thinking my way through areas with configured builds, by not using PvE consumables and other PvE skills, I am in conclusion not using all of the tools given to me. I am forcibly gimping myself. The challenges I used to face before have now turned into self-imposed challenges, and that sucks.

While this isn't directly related to your post, I saw the word "gimp" and decided to speak up.

MithranArkanere · May 30, 2008, 07:02 PM // 19:02

Well... is there a PvE ladder?
Will anyone getting more energy make you have less?

In PvE you don't compete against others, so the differences when you bring your own skills doesn't matter.

If an elementalist has a skill that gives him quite a lot of energy when not facing enchant removal, then other professions should get other skills empowered...
Oh... wait, they had. All of them had skills empowered.

In PvE there is no 'balance', just... 'halting' when necessary. If they see that Ether Renewal is 'too much', and see that there is some people 'complaining about that' (*titter*), then Izzy will take care of that, don't you worry (*chuckle*).

Phoenix Tears · May 30, 2008, 07:06 PM // 19:06

not just another ursan whine thread... hasn't the world 10000000000000000³ enough ? >.>

Konig Des Todes · May 30, 2008, 07:07 PM // 19:07

I agree, ER needs a nerf, along with other skills in PvE.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Sorry, PvE players asked for PvE to be cut away from balance, so now they get what they ask for. I'm sure the majority is ever so happy.

1. Not all PvE players asked to be separated.
2. We never asked for an unbalanced game, those who wanted to be separated wanted to stop being effected by PvP balancing, and have their own balancing. That, in effect, will make the game harder, not easier.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxx wraith xxx

/agree
i loved when i started playing it, you know in the days of the standard team.2 wars, 2 eles, 1 SS, 1MM and 2 monk. After that came the heroes wich screwed up some things but made everything a bit more relaxed. But now with ursan its just QQ playstyle. As i for one refuse to have ursan on my barr i cant seem to find any group atm so i am kinda persuaded to make a monk. Anet pls hit Ursan with the nerf-bat cause i want groups to be fun again and not mindless skillpressing. Btw ER+SF deserve a slight nerf too maybe make ER last 12 sec (still decent time imo) and SF reverted to old duration cause sin are now the masters of pve and pvp.

~cheers, wraith~

I agree, ER, SF, and Ursan all need the "nerf-bat" to hit them. I still don't see how people think making the game easier makes the game more fun. I have found that most people I talk to about difficulty of a game prefer the harder games because they give a better challenge. I know not everyone is like that, but what is the point of Hard Mode, when it is still too easy?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

What's wrong with Expertise? QQ

Ever heard of a Toucher Ranger? Thats the main thing. Expertise effects too many skills, spirits, touch, and ranger? Make it just Ranger skills please. *This is not a QQ about R/Rt Spirit Spammers or R/N Touchers, I have played them, fought them, killed them, been killed by them, I don't care but Expertise is too powerful, and for too long*

Quote:

Originally Posted by eddie the reaper

Seriously, stop QQ'ing, if you don't like it, don't run it, don't play with people who run it, if they want to run it in PvE it's not hurting anyone else, yes, maybe they're bad at the game and they need it to win, but fair enough. Play with your Guild and Alliance, I don't see why you would want to PuG anyway.

Just because people complain about past things, and people complain about current things, does not mean that the same people complained the whole time, and does not mean that the game is what they wanted when they get something. As I stated, people wanted the split so that PvE can become more balanced, not less.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Wait - we have a necro player stating that an ele form of e-management should be nerfed?
For balance reasons?
In PvE?

That just warped my fragile little mind!

Notice he said Soul Reaping needs another Nerf.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xDusT II

Can the majority now finally admit that they have no idea what it is they truly want?

It is impossible for any group of people, when large, to know what is wanted as a whole. There are too many different ideas that is just cannot be done, sadly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scrawlerthebrave

PvE is for everyone, experienced or not. That's why there is HM

The problem is, even hard mode is easy now with these crazily buffed skills. Ursan made it a joke with running an Ursan group before the split. Let Normal mode be the mode for the inexperienced, and Hard mode become actually hard with all skills, for the experienced.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KamikazeChicken

There's no sense complaining that your skills are too powerful against those poor PvE monsters... You're more than welcome to just not use them, but I have a feeling you wouldn't accept that, just like people bitch about consumables but won't refuse to use them. My view of PvE is probably altered by the fact I don't PUG or deal with the average idiot, but maybe now I'll finally make an ele and entertain myself with emo smite.

I complain about skills being overpowered, but I don't use them. The closest skill to being overpowered I use is Death Blossom, and no, I don't use mobeus strike, I use Way of the Assassin, or sometimes I use Shattering Assault, which removes Death Blossom too. My heroes don't use singly overpowered skills either, I just found good ways to get ok and underpowered skills to work in builds. I never use Ursan unless I must to get into a guild group, and I never use Consumables. So, I am the perfect example of the con to your arguement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeff Nut

Just ask anyone who has gone to UW with an Ursan team and had someone load up on all the quests at Reaper of the Labyrinth and see how much success they had?

That actually happened to me in a Ursan PuG group. We still survived somehow. That was a shock to me and what was the main reason for me to not like Ursan.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk

There is a difference between "intention" and "mistake".

Hence, the point of that. Improper balance was a "mistake" caused by ANet mistaking what PvEers want. They(Anet) claim PvEers want the game easy for "Epicness", but it is, in fact, easy for loot that they want, and that is only for those who want loot, which is not the population as a whole. In other words, Let Normal Mode be easy, let Hard Mode be hard. I personally wouldn't care if they reduced the loot rate in Hard Mode, and made a NM/HM split, as long as they actually balanced the skills. But I know that will not happen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by toastgodsupreme

Let the farmers have their [shadow form]. How does that hurt you?

Let the eles have [ether renewal]. Means they don't get to use another elite.

Yes, [ursan blessing] is imbalanced.

Yes, I hate the fact that [volfen blessing] gives no armor bonus so the only classes that can really use it effectively are wars and paras.

Yes it sucks that Necros got nerfed with soul reaping and minion limits (I have a necro on my old account that's almost 36 months old).

But really... stop QQ'ing. It's PvE. It's only as fun as you make it to be, and right now, it seems like you don't want to have fun anymore.

I can see it now. Economy drops from over farming. Monks are useless, as are N/Rts now. All non-healers, non-farmers, must be Ursan. It's PvE, its only fun to people who don't like shutting themselves off from humanity if they have the right build. Lets all stop QQing about the impeding doom of fun (to laugh at) experiences of PuGs, and all seclude ourselves in our groups of Heroes and Henchmen. Lets just ruin society a little more until it collapses.

All jokes aside, Making PvE too easy doesn't help everyone. Not using these skills prevent PuGs, and yes, some do like to PuG. Like say, those who don't have EN or NF and cannot use Heroes, or perhaps those who love to "meet" more people, or even those who join PuGs because they are sick of being alone, even if they have a guild, or just simply those who laugh at their past PuG experiences and want a sense of nostalgia(if thats how you spell it).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Tears

not just another ursan whine thread... hasn't the world 10000000000000000³ enough ? >.>

Thing is, its not an URSAN whine thread. It's an IMBALANCED thread. Use whine if you want, I wouldn't because I must say that I am disappointed with ANet with the outcome of the PvE/PvP split. I was really hoping to get more nerfs then buffs for PvE, it was too easy as it was, and its just getting worse. I am starting to doubt that GW2 will be good.

Attention ANet: Stop making things easier! Normal Mode was hard enough, and introducing Ursan was terrible. I was glad with Hard Mode, but now that is becoming too easy, even with making builds that are not imba. Nerf the Imbagon, Nerf Ursan, Fix the game! Please!That is all

farmerfez · May 30, 2008, 07:23 PM // 19:23

It's a conspiracy!!!!1
xD

Enix · May 30, 2008, 07:28 PM // 19:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

This makes it not only possible but eminently easy to fully maintain Ether Renewal.

Ether Renewal is an elite Energy Storage skill. This means it can only be used by Elementalists to any effect. This also means that Arenanet has now turned Elementalists into PvE gods.

What else is new?

Quote:

An elementalist can easily achieve more than the equivalent of fifty pips of energy regeneration using ER. He can, for example, maintain Life Bond on every other member of a 12-man party while maintaining Vital Blessing and Life Attunement on himself, and spam Heal Party, Heal Area and Karei's Healing Circle on recharge, without ever running out of energy. Can anyone claim this is not broken?

In many high-end areas there are specific counters to the strategy you just outlined (e.g. interrupts, shatters, knock-downs). The micromanagement would be horrible and you would have run with guild groups to make your strategy even remotely viable. I remember bonding on my monk - whenever anyone loses a bond and doesn't announce you have to stop and ask which slows down the group and pisses people off.

ER simply opens Elementalists to filling roles that non-elementals would traditionally fill (see Touch Rangers, Rit MM Bombers). Moreover, this skill is a viable alternative to SF or Double Attunements AND lets you use PvE spells with energy return.

Does this upset the game balance? Not necessarily. You won't see ER solo farmers ruining the economy (i.e. Shadowform, 55s, 105s, etc).

Simply, if you don't like ele bonders with infinite energy, don't party with one of them. It seems that you are complaining about the devs trying to make a PvE-worthless ELITE into a useful skill again. They did - so what? In fact, I hope they do that to EVERY PvE-worthless elite in the game!

There is always going to be a group of people you piss off by changing anything. I am happy to see positive changes for underutilized skills - now they need to tone back Ursan.

Golgotha · May 30, 2008, 07:28 PM // 19:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

That's because not using them and leaving them aside means you're gimping yourself.

Who would want to gimp themselves now?

The same purists who are having conniption fits in this very thread? Ursan makes things very easy, therefor I do not use it. Imbagon makes things very easy, therefor I don't use it. Notice a trend? No one is forcing you to "fall in line" as it is. All I hear about is overpowered PvE skills and cookie-cutter builds. Why force yourself into another cookie-cutter build simply because a skill is now overpowered? Did that someone nerf the build you've been using for all this time? No, so continue to use that one and let the people who want to have overpowered skills use them.

You guys are so thick to believe everyone should hold the same high standards and see things as you do. Obviously you are the minority, just the very vocal minority. Would I mind seeing a huge nerf to these skills? Not at all, but then again you don't see me trolling every thread with their mention for attention. Rather, I'm playing the damn game.. my way.

upier · May 30, 2008, 07:34 PM // 19:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

PvP is what kept THE ENTIRE GAME in balance.

It's statements like this that show how little people get "balance" in PvE.
The only thing we can say with certainty is that skills that only have a PvP form (= a version of the skill that is used in both PvP AND PvE!) ARE unbalanced in PvE.
Other skills - might be unbalanced in PvE.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

Notice he said Soul Reaping needs another Nerf.

You mean to the level of ... let's say ...considering that the necros actually pay for certain skills with hp these days ... instead of gaining energy the necros gain a certain amount of hp for each rank in SR? Like ... completely TRASHING SR?

Because there is kinda a difference between "a nerf that is acceptable" and "a nerf that would balance SR".

Konig Des Todes · May 30, 2008, 07:42 PM // 19:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

You mean to the level of ... let's say ...considering that the necros actually pay for certain skills with hp these days ... instead of gaining energy the necros gain a certain amount of hp for each rank in SR? Like ... completely TRASHING SR?

Because there is kinda a difference between "a nerf that is acceptable" and "a nerf that would balance SR".

Changing energy to health gain would a very weird twist. I personally say that the health sacrificing skills that are 1 energy need to be raised when talking about necromancers. 1 energy cost + 3/4 energy gain from [Masochism]=2/3 energy gain per skill. That is out of shape, even with the health sacrifice. Soul Reaping should probably get a longer time then "15 seconds" for the energy gain net. Or less times of gaining energy. Of course, unlike Expertise, this has a catch of things having to die.

And, I am not one to think of balancing ideas, I'm sure they wouldn't work out. And don't say I shouldn't criticize on balancing methods, because just because I cannot think of how to balance something out initially, doesn't mean I cannot see how something would/would not work for balancing. Lastly, yes, there is a difference between a "nerf that is acceptable" and a "nerf that would balance"

Longasc · May 30, 2008, 07:45 PM // 19:45

Brrr... the game is already so broken that one or a dozen more broken skills cannot break it even more.

Enjoy this state till GW2, and be prepared to wait for Blizzard to release Diablo 3. Or that ANet gets back on track with GW2, which I seriously doubt.

Quozz · May 30, 2008, 07:55 PM // 19:55

How many of us would have purchased GW at the time of its release if the game had only 2 professions, everyone had the same 5 skill bar except for the monks who had 8 and you were guarenteed to never fail at a quest or mission. Pretty sure the answer is not many. And yet this is what Anet has turned the game into. No longer is there any sense of satisfaction in beating difficult areas. Fun games offer challenge and don't give out automatic success. Sadly the people at Anet have forgotten all about their original vision and have instead turned a once epic game into a hollow shell of its former self.

I for one will wait and see what transpires over the next month or so and if PVE does not get whacked severely with the nerf bat so the game offers strategic challenge again (and I am not talking about pumping up the bad guys yet again with even more over powered skills) I will find something else to play and when GW2 comes around I won't even give it a trial run. From my perspective, if Anet has screwed my gaming experience once already why should I give them a chance to do it again.

Tyla · May 30, 2008, 08:04 PM // 20:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

Ever heard of a Toucher Ranger? Thats the main thing. Expertise effects too many skills, spirits, touch, and ranger? Make it just Ranger skills please. *This is not a QQ about R/Rt Spirit Spammers or R/N Touchers, I have played them, fought them, killed them, been killed by them, I don't care but Expertise is too powerful, and for too long*

Touch Rangers aren't exactly the FotM c-space to fame builds that people are using in HA, degenerating it.

If you read on, and you read my posts in the thread "Expertise" in Sardelac, you'll know I'm all for removing the -energy off non-primary Ranger skills.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk

I had quite a lot of discussions with the "elitist" idiots, that can´t step back and want things nerfed into oblivion, because of that. If you are not one of them, than I give you my sincerest apologies.

When things are overpowered, they are not fun. When you're against them, or playing them, they are not fun. When you know that that's all people use, it affects you.

Things so trivial are not worth whining about, especially since PvE is easy in escence, because of the fact enemies are oh-so predicable.

When they affect the main priority of this game's balance (PvP, in general), trivial effects on PvE (Skill balance) cause an uproar of whining from alot of the PvE community.

PvE skills didn't affect PvP, but what it did affect was some of the PvE community.

And without a balanced game, the PvP'ers so to speak lose enjoyment in their part of the game because people can't adapt. Now don't get me wrong, but these people adapt and use their own player skill against these overpowered things, but just because they do, and counters exist, it doesn't stop it from being overpowered.

Something so trivial shouldn't cause a withdrawal on skill balance. I'm talking about the update that was forced to revert, and the PvP/PvE split.

And even then, some PvE'ers demand balance on their side of the game. I'm not so often playing in PvP myself unless it's possible, and me being in an American guild may cause problems with that.

The point here is that people don't like overpowered things. Playing against, using, or even having them in their vicinity.
Having a game rushed to completion is bad for the most part, and this affects every single person who plays the game.

DreamWind · May 30, 2008, 08:10 PM // 20:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Symeon

I don't think I've seen anyone claiming it isn't. All I've seen is people saying 'DUN LIEK IT DUN USE IT!!!!!!11' and 'It's good for PuGs/casual players'. But yeah, that still makes them bad at Guild Wars.

There will always be people who say a skill is just "ok" even when it is beyond ridiculous.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

It's statements like this that show how little people get "balance" in PvE.
The only thing we can say with certainty is that skills that only have a PvP form (= a version of the skill that is used in both PvP AND PvE!) ARE unbalanced in PvE.
Other skills - might be unbalanced in PvE.

You missed my point. I meant that almost all balance was based around PvP, and that was better for PvE than the current system. The split was only meant to please the majority, and guess what...the majority could care less about balance. The pve players caring about balance are now in the minority. Welcome to the club PvPers have been in for over 3 years.